Julie, it is great to be with you again. Thankyou in advance. But I have to say that in the middle of dealing with a lot of tall weeds and bugs, God has also given me some flowers and fruit trees to enjoy. How do spot a safe pastorand can. But before we begin, I just want to take a minute to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. The outside investigation report said something along the lines of, Bill Hybels hundreds or thousands of emails with this woman were, not available. Well, as it turns out my understanding from talking to witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. Its How do we protect the entity and the entity as expressed through the person of Bill Hybels? Once you make that decision that youre willing to protect the entity or the person in charge of the entity to the detriment of members of the body or members of the staff, youve made some poor choices that are going to have consequences. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. A person whos not walking in the Spirit is susceptible to that type of behavior, even a senior pastor. Yeah, yeah, I think I think thats a good word to Julie. I just, Im amazed that they were in such geographic proximity to one another dealing with almost the exact same problem. These little bitty people, from Willows perspective, who helped win the PR back, its a miracle. I did live it. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. I understand that the desire to have elders dealing with what Ill call Echelon or tier level, theological topics: What does the church think about, you know, for example, racial reconciliation? So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. And I still havent been able to get her to visit with me. At that age, I had never had someone in spiritual authority lie or manipulate me. WebHi friend, I'm Pete Briscoe. And I think there is a healthy fear. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. I learned that from Bill. I hope someday I can overcome this cynicism because I need Church as it should be. God showed him through that sermon how his trip was actually isolating and began a process of transformation. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. Why did so many look the other way for so long? And I realized that as we were discussing this, that there might be some people who have heard about what happened at Willow Creek, but somewhat superficially, through the headlines and dont really know beneath the surface. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe This is just the way things are in Corinth. And I think that Bill Hybels created an advocacy structure around him by having that many lawyers on the board. But this is the beauty of I think whats arisen is an independent media. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. Absolutely horrible. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. (See page 54 and following) May God lead your next steps and may you find ways to use your gifts from a place of health. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. And I think Christian leaders need to start stepping up. Why is it that nobody outside a very small group of women who had no power, really no position, why didnt others come to their rescue? They had these Global Leadership Summits. Im Julie Roys. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. Likewise. Its about serving God. Continue Reading The Upper Room: John 15 Posted by Nate Murray Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. And yet, they lost the PR battle, which is unbelievable. And so I do think its a healthy thing when youre afraid of doing wrong, because it will be brought up and you will be held accountable. And I remember you saying. And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. And when I came into the representation, that was a new term to me, Id never heard anything like it. Funny, whenever I would watch Bill Hybels preach online or speak at the GLS, and he would go into that quavering voice, tears-in-his-eyes, emotional mode, Id stop listening. and so I almost feel like the elder boards are there to keep the honest person honest. We were talking a little bit about the elder board. Friends are important! Its a serious analog for what happened at Willow. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. Thank you for joining us in seeing to it that no one misses the grace of God. Jesus said, I call you My friend. And I feel that way with these pastors. How do you get people to come to church when there are more authentic people in the bars? So to some extent, we all have a measure of hypocrisy. And this is a huge problem in the Evangelical Church in the southern baptist church, I mean, just absolutely massive problem where so often the predators covered up instead of brought to justice. Please note, our website requires JavaScript to be supported. And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. David Jankowski. There were some areas or some some critical times when things could have gone differently, but the elders caved in essence to Bill Hybels. I was a member of WCCC for many years. This is Chicago Tribune. This is people who are dissillusioned, who wanted big jobs at Willow and didnt get them. But when Scot, the the intra tribal dissenter steps up and says, This is wrong, things shifted. But it really had the tone has to be set by leadership for a culture of goodness. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. So, you know, Julie, its really its death by 1000 cuts. Thats a bad default state. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I think that they were scared of what Ill call the Christian Industrial Complex that had risen up around Bill, the economic consequences of speaking out on a topic of high consequence. I have been a child of God since I was four and in ministry most of my life. And sadly, I think they have still. What is it was Chicago? Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. I think its incredibly dangerous. To me, Bill did not come across as a predator, flirty or suggestive with women. And I think there was, but I think that theres a spiritual stronghold around celebrity culture within evangelicalism writ large. They have to be theyre incredibly convincing. What Ive told people is, If you are not ready to blow yourself or the organization up in five seconds flat, you need to find a different hobby.. May you and your family be richly bleSSed!!! Amen. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. I think its Pat Baranowskis story that ran in the New York Times that actually caused that. At least, thats how I saw it. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. Much has been written on establishing criteria for board member selection. it is. Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. It is what manifests. To view their entire showroom online. and I found these people in those imperfect churches! Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. And so when you see behaviors that look like grooming, you know, John Calvin, Im not a Calvinist. And which really makes me sad because theyve had a change in leadership. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. For more information just go to JudsonU.edu. Okay. And I could explain why I think thats funny, but you have to have extreme accountability, the larger your platform gets. I would probably have been among those who defended Bill saying, He couldnt have done these things; Hes too strong of a Christian leader. I see this culture as similar to the Corinthian church with the man who was involved with his fathers wife. And we need to apologize. Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. I thought that emails could always be recovered, even after being erased, by a good IT person. Well, Mitch, this has been read. I think one of the ways that Willow tried to reckon with the situation was to permit Bill Hybels to retire from his role at the church. Yeah, that is super dangerous. Also, major problems. Briscoe They need accountability. Amen. None at all. Well, since you brought it up, youre gonna youre gonna have to address the Vanilla Bean. Hes also the chairman of the elder board and his own church, Bent Tree Fellowship. I think these women would still like to know the answer to that. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. It was a huge fixture in evangelicalism. Its scripturally rooted. This was an excellent interview and elders need to read this interview. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? Later Telling the Truth began airing in several countries in southeast Asia and across 10 countries in southern Africa. And my understanding was the elder board set some boundaries for Clinton to be able to come and speak. I was blown away. Now youre a lawyer. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Its really pride. Senior pastors dont need advocates. But theres something wrong in the whole business of Church. It is a collection of people. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. In context, I think my meaning becomes clear as I say soon after, agreeing with Mitchs assessment that unanimity is bad: Absolutely horrible. Theres another circumstance that I became aware of where The board had a 360 Review done on Hybels and his leadership and some problems they were experiencing with his management style from, you know, bullying, abusive style. My husband and I actually bought our last car from our court and we had a great experience. They made a lot of friends. In the early 2000s, as Stuart and Jill transitioned into minister-at-large roles and spent more time traveling to serve the global church, an additional voice was added in order to bless the supporters ofTelling the Truth. Yeah, I just saw you ran a story on MacDonalds massive mansion in Illinois being held in the name of Vanilla Bean LLC. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. It is simply to feed ourselves. Its my understanding that was a watershed moment. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe Lawyers are, by definition, advocates, right? Explain that. So grateful for those who did and Scot McKnight who came out with a just a powerful, I remember when his blog hit and he said, Every elder has to resign. And within what, wasnt it a week, all of them resigned. There was another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his assistant. I appreciate your feedback. I mean, its an accurate criticism of people within the church. The small tape recording process drew the attention of many people who were eager for a copy of the teaching they heard at church to share with friends and neighbors. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims, Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. You know, people like Dee Parsons, Julie Anne Smith, Julia Dahl, and people who I knew would not stop talking about it and would not stop talking about it for months. 1 talking about this. That has been documented and proven through therapy notes. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. We have an open listing for a lead teaching pastor in a what I believe is a healthy church environment. And so when you know from the pulpit, that might be a strength. Because they were required to move by unanimity. It grows over time. And that was how Bill deformed his accountability structure. Absolutely. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. That way, youll never miss an episode. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Pete was preaching from Hebrews, and he was making the New Covenant come alive before all of us. They wont produce any vanilla beans. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is Do we have a theology of goodness at our church? Inside their system, they need to be guarded, governed, guided. Right. How are you? Leave them alone. I can see the elders (more than half of which were women), and people in general saying, It was only a hug. Well, early on in the process after the Tribune article, we had to make a decision, How are we going to fight a machine of this size that is basically promulgating lies about these women and their families and their supporters? And I reached out to people that I already knew within, you know, the watch blogging community. John and Nancy Ortberg had been at Willow Creek as pastors. Its biblical. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. that keeps the honest person honest. When I came onto our board, the terms that Pete Briscoe used were, guide, govern and guard. And I think policy governance has the governing part. I think it took courage. Let the Briscoes help you experience Life in all its fullness! Yeah, I think youre gonna be waiting a while. Because I often wonder what would have happened if he had come back and you know, not been well are not been really able to do his job but said, You know what, Ive got to do this. This is the you know, erither, I need the job, or, This ministry completes me. or whatever, whatever the excuse is. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. And you made the statement that if you have the character to lead, you dont need a manual. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. They were almost sacred and benevolent and unable to do wrong. And if you think its not, you know, go and look in your church building right now, if youre quarantined under COVID, or youre not gathering. I was blown away. Dear anonymous. I know that the original elders of Harvest thought they could keep James accountable despite the knowledge that he had glaring character flaws from the beginning. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. So Im very much looking forward to our time together today. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. I was just following following lawyers advice. So its okay. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. I do. Well, I want to turn our discussion to what youve experienced at your own church, which is a multi-site mega church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area, because those are things where youve been able to apply some of these lessons that youve learned from watching the negative example maybe of Willow Creek, youve learned an awful lot from going through crisis at your own church. Because they, I mean, they had a massive PR machine they had, they hired Mark DeMoss, his firm to come in and try to resolve things from a PR standpoint. They made a lot of friends a lot of money over the years selling books, promoting programs, platforming them at conferences, platforming them at the Global Leadership Summit. This is a person who is pushing a boundary because they want to do something bad. Not so much at Willow till after, because I was so wrapped up in the Harvest stuff at that time and the Moody stuff that I didnt really have the capability or the bandwidth to do much reporting about Willow. Tell us what you learned through you know, bringing this person to light, confronting him and dealing with the entire situation that we can learn from as a church. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! Okay, how it didnt bring accountability. Judson is located just 36 miles outside Chicago on a beautiful 90 acre campus. And basically, my understanding is his cavalier attitude was, Well, Ill just pick up and Ill open a new church down the street [if] you dont you dont like me the way I am.. Ive even friended a few. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. Frankly I find church to be excruciatingly lonely. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. I was just trying to build a relationship, or whatever you just go, But I see you for what you are and youre gonna have to go.. 1 talking about this. So, while I have strong feelings about this, as you can imagine being a lawyer, but at all points, legal advice has to be subservient to Scripture. Lawyer for Bill Hybels Victims Shares Inside Story. This is a calling. This was something that was very deeply ingrained in their culture. Thank you so much. Yeah, without using any names. When you think about the economic reach of an organization that was that size within evangelicalism, my goodness, even Christianity Today was scared to run articles about it. That to me, is a corruption of the role. You know, Willow creeks pastors family members benefit from the Penumbra of Willow Creek and its just sheer size within evangelicalism. And there was also a service at WC where the board interviewed him and was he was questioned about an affair. Please know you are not alone. Like so many of you, I love Pete. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. Pete has offered to Lets say you have you have six or eight members who are saying, Guys, we need to fire this person. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Put a skin tag on it or a flesh tag. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. And Im good friends with her husband Scott Dyer as well. Hi. Their board operated by unanimity as well. At the same time, hes writing a book and writing articles for Christianity Today about marriage purity. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. I wasnt throughout the representation. JULIE ROYS 23:38, What I meant by that comment is that unanimity didnt create any problems for the board and senior pastor because everyone agreed with James MacDonald. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. Whats our theology? So its more than flirty words or suggestions. Really what it is, Julie, if we want to get down to it and go to spiritual or biblical terms, these are these are works of the flesh when were not led by the Spirit. Im doing well but probably not as well as you because youre on vacation in Florida. Its a calling of God. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. Just what I call a deformed leadership culture at the church where certain things became acceptable that shouldnt. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. But you lose the guarding mechanism, which I think in todays in todays cultural moment, its probably the most important aspect of eldering. Yeah, they eventually did. I dont agree with a lot of his views, but he said something and it is true, we need to have, you know, church leader needs to have two voices, one for gathering the sheep and one for scaring away wolves. And then everyone could say, Oh, how sad that that one person did that one thing. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. ) So, Willows pride did not allow them to see any flaws in their leadership, especially their premier leader. Stuart and Jill Briscoe have always had a passion for teaching God's Word and speaking Truth into people's hearts and moving them toward God. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. And really, I came back to the Lord at Willow and He used that church to help me reestablish my relationship with Him and with His church. You have your identity rooted in something other than Christ, the centrality of Christ. Yes, I totally agree. I So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. I know from hearing from men, that that Bill abused men emotionally, spiritually while they were working there. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. Like they didnt read a book, figuring out how to do it, but there are warning signs that people need to be aware of. In another area, it might be used to groom someone and use vulnerability as a mechanism to draw people into something that is corrupt. So your pastor, he chose himself to step down, correct? I think thats dangerous. Also I want to let you know that Judson University is planning to resume in person classes this fall for traditional transfer and adult students and its still not too late to apply. Well, one thing I did want to cover, and our time is getting to an end, but I know that you have dealt with having a sexual predator within your church. They have a responsibility to the larger church to speak. Yet Mitch isnt just the lawyer whos seen megachurches as an outsider bringing accountability. James MacDonald was friends with Ed Stetzer. Your browser does not support JavaScript. I came out of Wheaton College, as I know a lot of kids do when youre in a Christian environment and maybe see some disillusioning things and I just, it was really a hard spiritual time for me. But you have seen the the worst of it. Jill That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. Character always has to come first in hiring, then competence, and then chemistry. Great! 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